"Meet Dr. Hilary Clayton"
Live Chat On AOL 
Thursday, January 27, 2000


Dr. Hilary Clayton
McPhail Dressage Chair in Equine Sports Medicine

Moderator: HOST GSTD Khanna
Typist for the Guest: LDRS GSTD Horse
Transcript: HOST GSTD Paint
Note: The transcript edited for clarity of the conversation

HOST GSTD Khanna: Hello everyone, thanks for joining us tonight. Horse Sports Forum is pleased to present its chat "Ask Our Equine Experts." Our guest tonight is DR. HILARY CLAYTON, a researcher and an accomplished author. Her research interests are in the area of equine sports sciences, especially gait analysis and conditioning of sport horses.

Dr. Clayton will be answering your questions on Equine Sports Medicine, locomotion in sport horses and other related topics. Typing her answers to your questions tonight will be GSTDHorse. If you have any remaining questions after tonight's chat, please send them in by Email to HOST GSTD Paint.

Before we begin, I would like to thank GSTDPaint and GSTDCarol who will be helping you to follow the protocol and will organize the incoming questions for us. Additionally, thanks to LDRS GSTD Horse and LDRS GSTD MargeR for their assistance. So, let us welcome our guest Dr. Hilary Clayton, and begin our session. 

Flower0111: What does standard post race treatment of legs involve?

Dr. Clayton: It should involve getting the wraps off quickly because the legs get very hot under the wraps after the horse has cooled out, either cold hose or ice the legs. Then the legs might be wrapped, that is optional. It depends on the individual horse - if the horse tends to fill, then use wraps.

Flower0111: How long to ice?

Dr. Clayton: 15 minutes.

Flower0111: No poultices ?

Dr. Clayton: No.

Flower0111: Each leg?

Dr. Clayton: Try to do 2 legs together, for 15 minutes together.

PracticalHorses: A horse I ride (thinking of buying it) was lame, and now has tested positive for EPM. Is lameness a common symptom or could, as we think it may have been, a pulled muscle?

Dr. Clayton: Horses with EPM have problems with movement related to neurological problems. This can be things like difficulty backing, either dragging toes or lifting feet too high, abnormal gaits on small circles but this is different from lameness, EPM does not usually cause the lameness so there is probably something else going on with this horse.

PracticalHorses: I heard a horse slept with his front feet bent, this common with EPM?

Dr. Clayton: Is he standing up or lying down?

PracticalHorses: Standing.

Dr. Clayton: Are the knees bent or the fetlocks or what?

PracticalHorses: I think it was the knees.

Dr. Clayton: Most horses when they sleep standing, lock their knees. A few horses do not do that - they stand with their knees a little bit forward and sometimes you can see them trembling slightly, but this often doesn't cause problems with the horse

DarkerHorse: When my horse lands from jumps or I get him very collected at the canter he swishes his tail. He trots very sound, and he is rather green. He is not the most balanced horse in the world, would he seem like a candidate for hock injections? He gets the regular Bute/Dex at shows. 
He also is coldbacked. I lunge him for a minute before I get on to make him comfortable. Do you recommend any special pads?

Dr. Clayton: Just swishing the tail does not mean the horse is sore. Most horse swish when they are annoyed or if the rider is using the spur.

DarkerHorse: He swaps off too sometimes if I get him really collected at the canter, but this is usually only when he is hyper.
Oh, but I do use spurs. That's a good reason, thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Dr. Clayton: But if this horse is coldbacked, then in this case the tail swishing is response to back pain, especially when the horse lands over a jump - there's a lot of force on the back and during collection, the horse is asked to round his back.

DarkerHorse: What pads do you find effective?

Dr. Clayton: It depends why you need the pad. If the saddle already fits or is narrow in front then the pad will make that worse. So look at the reason's you need the pad before deciding what kind to get.

DarkerHorse: He canters like a horse with EPM when I first start cantering. Is that normal for a coldbacked horse?

Dr. Clayton: That could be part of "coldback" horse. But it could be other things as well, for example, arthritis.

IBtheParty: The horse I almost bought was dead sound in the ring, and when it came back from the vet it couldn't trot soundly on concrete but it could on grass and in the ring...any ideas? 

Dr. Clayton: The horse probably has a bone or joint problem that looks worse on the hard surface because of the increased concussion. 

IBtheParty: Is that bad? It's 8yrs old, never raced if that's relevant...with good x-ray.

Dr. Clayton: If horse is very lame it is bad. If the horse is slightly lame, and the price is right, you might want to find out from the vet if the lameness can be treated or managed

LDRS GSTD Roger: Could you comment of the relative effects of stride length vs. stride frequency and the significance on efficiency of performance? Endurance riding in particular.

Dr. Clayton: For endurance type sports like racing and eventing it's more efficient to have a longer stride,

WenTil01: I have a young WB mare - 17h. About a month ago, she started to be short on the front left we did a bone scan and the scan lit up in the hock area we did zero degree x-rays of both hocks and the right stifle no changes, no cysts. The vet put her on Adequan - 4 shots a week apart, IM 2 shots of Legend - IV a month apart. She is also on Coseqin, MSM, and aspirin the chiropractor in the practice treated her for a sore back. It is now about 10 days after the first shots and I don't see improvement. What would be the next step? How long should I give it before doing anything else? What could it possibly be? She is on light exercise, generally a dressage horse.

Dr. Clayton: Sounds like the vet is doing all the right things. Give it a month then report back to your vet unless it gets worse in the meantime.

DrsgInstr: I have heard that many WBs (dressage) go through a period in their training at about 5 or 6 years old when they experience changes in their hocks and need to be injected...but there is no deterioration because of this....can you comment?

Dr. Clayton: I would not be injecting the hocks without good reason.

Flower0111: How would you condition a relatively fit horse for a 25 mile CTR (competitive trail ride).

Dr. Clayton: I would put the horse on a 2 week training schedule, with one long ride, and four or five shorter rides during the 2 week period, ending on how fit the horse is now.

Flower0111: How long is long?

Dr. Clayton: The long ride might begin at 10 miles, increasing by one mile every 2 weeks, up to 20 - 25 miles. The shorter rides would be 4-5 miles each, and ridden at the fastest speeds than the longer rides.

DarkerHorse: Hi again, I was the one with the coldbacked horse. I use a cotton pad and a Gel pad right now. I am pretty sure the saddle fits pretty well, and when I lunge him the worst of the effects of the coldbackness seem to diminish. Do you think that a minute or two of lunging before I get on every time I ride would hurt him? I literally mean a minute or two of lunging, no more. We have good footing in our lunging ring.

Dr. Clayton: The lunging is fine, especially if it makes the horse feel better.

FeatherGtraining: I've got a horse that when unsaddled is fine but with saddle is very lame. When I checked out I found the SERRATUS THORACIS muscle very sore. Have been treating with DMSO & dex. Is there anything else I can do and how long will this take to heal. This is a barrel horse.

Dr. Clayton: How long it takes to heal depends on how badly the muscle is damaged. If the muscle fibers are torn, it takes longer to heal than if the muscle is just sprained. But it's hard to know how severe the injury is, so, evaluate the response to treatment.

LDRS GSTD Hrsmn: Has your research revealed anything interesting about piaffe, especially impact on training ? Or about balance ?

DR. Clayton: What I've found out about piaffe is that different horses perform it very differently and individually. All horses trot the same, and all horses passage basically the same, but each horse has his own "fingerprint" in piaffe. The very top horses piaffe more like the passage or trot the less good horses lose the diag. rhythm in piaffe. I have not seen horses that have an airborne phase in piaffe, instead of leaping from one diagonal pair of legs to the other in piaffe the horses step from one diagonal to the other.

LDRS GSTD Hrsmn: Any observations about balance in context of piaffe? I still miss Peron. <g>

Dr. Clayton: The balance goes with the better quality piaffe in which the hind foot contacts the ground slightly beforethe diagonal front hoof this is the same as diagonal advanced placement in the trot...the trot tends to be well balanced when the hind hoof hits the ground before the front hoof.

WenTil01: Right now, my horse is in light exercise. Would complete rest be better? Also, at what point should she be put back into regular training?

Dr. Clayton: We try not to rest horses completely unless this is really necessary. The reason is that the ligaments and tendons lose a lot of strength when the horse is rested and it takes a long time to regain that strength when the horse goes back to work. Some injuries need complete rest but otherwise light exercise is preferrable.

WenTil01: At what point should she return to full training? 

Dr. Clayton: Usually when the horse goes back to regular training depends on the progress of the injury usually it's when the horse is sound and the injury has healed.

Indihoma: Please comment on the treeless saddle and potential effects on the horses back.

Dr. Clayton: These saddles can be quite useful especially for horses that are difficult to fit with a saddle. But they're not suitable for all types of riding

DrsgInstr: I have heard that through your research you have found that there is no suspension phase in piaffe. Does this extend to the classically trained horses, such as SRS, and Von Neindorf??

Dr. Clayton: As far as I know, yes it does, however, most of the horses I've analyzed have been competitive horses, so maybe I should analyze horses from SRS. The Iberian-type horses that I have studied, give the appearance of having suspension because they leap from one front leg, to the other front leg but, as they do that, they lose the diagonal synchrony so the hind hoofs are still on the ground therefore, no suspension. But, I'm still open minded

DrsgInstr: I think that would be a good idea if you could, but I truly believe it comes down to the training aspect in the end. Lots of people don't have the experience to train it, even if they had the horse that can do it. I would love to see some research on the SRS horses.

Dr. Clayton: From what I know about the mechanics of piaffe and the forces involved, I think it's doubtful that horses are strong enough to have a suspension when they piaffe in a classical manner.

HOST GSTD Khanna: If you have any remaining questions after tonight's chat, please send them in by Email to HOSTGSTDPaint. We will try to get them answered by Dr. Clayton for you.

Vkag63: What is the best way to see if a saddle fits the horse correctly and how to adjust one that does not fit as well besides piling on blankets - western saddle.

Dr. Clayton: The first thing is to see if the tree fits, the points at the front should be the same width as the horses shoulder too wide, the saddle sits too low, and may press on the withers. There should be no contact between saddle and horse's spine. If points are too narrow they cause pressure points on the horse. The tree should be straight - evaluate this by looking down the gullet with the saddle off the horse. Many saddles are twisted. The angles of the panels should match the slope of the horse's back, from spine going out towards the ribs and panel should have equal weight from front to back with no area's of lower or higher pressure. If a saddle is already too narrow more blankets make the problem worse.

LDRS GSTD Hrsmn: There are many varied approaches to warm up, both for regular training and for shows - the latter with that concentrated effort, especially at upper levels. What have your studies revealed about what we should (or should not) be doing in warm up - suggestions for warm up techniques and durations, aerobic vs suppling, etc?

Dr. Clayton: There are 2 aspects for warm up, one is concerned with physiological preparation of the horse and the other is concerned with the training aspects for physiological prep. You need to increase the horse's body temperature by one to two degrees. This occurs with active forward movement. When the muscles are warm they contract more strongly and the ligaments and tendons become more pliable and less suseptable to injury. So, it's not until the horse is physically warm that we should start suppling exercises or stretching exercises. So, the horse should come out, walk for several minutes, then move actively forward at trot or canter, for 5-10 minutes this will raise the temperature. Then include suppling exercise circles, lateral work and transitions and beyond that, the warm up becomes more specific to the individual horse and level of competition.

HOST GSTD Khanna: We will be having guests for "Live Chat" on a regular basis. Watch for the upcoming live events in the Horse Sports Forum (Keyword: Horse Sports)

HOST GSTD Khanna: Dr. Clayton, from all of us, a big "thank you" for your time and effort tonight and for being our guest.

I would also like to thank GSTDHorse who did the typing for Dr. Clayton, and GSTDPaint, GSTDCarol, and GSTD MargeR for their help with this chat. 

Last but not the least, a "Thank You" to all of you for your participation. REMEMBER, the keyword on AOL is: Horse Sports

HOST GSTD Khanna: Thanks for coming....Hope to see you again in Horse Sports Forum. Good night all.